[0.0-3.2] how far off are we from age reversal, do you think?
[3.2-5.0] That's one I'm most excited about.
[6.2-7.8] So have you looked at Yamanaka factor,
[7.8-9.7] have you talked about this on your show before?
[9.7-10.8] David St. Claes being on
[10.8-13.8] and I know that he's sort of tangentially associated with it,
[13.8-16.5] but assume, no, do the 30,000-foot view
[16.5-17.7] of the Yamanaka factors.
[17.7-22.7] So every cell in our body has the same DNA, okay?
[22.7-26.2] We know that and the DNA is in every cell
[26.2-27.8] because of a process called mitosis.
[27.8-29.0] Every time we make a new cell
[29.1-31.1] from the time we're in the womb to today,
[31.1-32.5] we're making new cells,
[32.5-35.8] both our entire DNA gets copied over into every cell.
[35.8-39.2] But what makes my eye look and act differently
[39.2-40.1] than my skin?
[40.1-42.0] If it's got the same DNA, how's it different?
[42.0-44.4] How's it different than my brain or my tongue
[44.4-45.5] or my feet?
[45.5-47.5] They're all, those are different cells.
[47.5-50.3] There's different cells and different organs in the body.
[50.3-52.8] Those cells are different because the genes
[52.8-55.1] in the DNA are on or off.
[55.1-56.2] So there's a bunch of switches,
[56.2-58.4] and the switches are either on or off.
[58.4-60.6] And that creates cellular differentiation.
[60.6-63.5] It's what makes one cell different from another cell.
[63.5-65.3] The eye cell, different from the heart cell,
[65.3-67.6] different from the skin cell or the lung cell.
[67.6-69.7] And the switches that are on or off
[69.7-71.5] are these little molecular switches.
[71.5-74.1] They're molecules that sit on top of the DNA
[74.1-77.4] and they keep that gene from working.
[77.4-79.0] It blocks it off.
[79.0-80.6] And then the other gene is open.
[80.6-83.2] And when it's open, that means that your cell
[83.2-85.7] is making RNA copies of that gene
[85.7-86.9] and turning it into a protein.
[86.9-88.1] Zeroes and ones.
[88.7-91.6] And each gene makes a unique protein.
[91.6-95.5] The proteins that then come out do a bunch of stuff.
[95.5-97.9] They're machines, they're molecular machines.
[97.9-100.2] And they're constantly doing all this stuff in your cell.
[100.2-102.2] And that's what makes every cell different
[102.2-105.4] is what genes are on and what genes are off.
[105.4-108.8] And the complexity of this is astounding.
[108.8-112.8] If you were to think about a cell being the size of Manhattan,
[112.8-116.4] so imagine a cell is a city the size of Manhattan
[116.4-118.8] with 500 story tall buildings.
[118.8-120.0] That's how big it would be.
[120.0-122.0] And every person is a protein.
[122.0-124.8] There's 10 billion people living in this 500 story
[124.8-126.9] tall building, Island of Manhattan,
[126.9-129.7] going in between the buildings up and down all day long,
[129.7-131.4] building stuff together, never sleeping,
[131.4-132.9] always working, running into each other,
[132.9-134.6] having coffee, making stuff together,
[134.6-137.6] breaking stuff together, working 10 billion of us.
[137.6-138.6] Those are the proteins in the cell.
[138.6-139.5] One cell.
[139.5-141.0] In one cell running around doing stuff.
[141.0-145.4] For 80 years, that's one second in one cell.
[145.4-147.3] That's how complex this is.
[147.3-150.1] So the proteins that are on or off matter a lot.
[150.1-151.0] And then they make stuff.
[151.0-153.0] So that's why the eye cell does totally different stuff
[153.0-154.8] than the brain cell or the heart cell.
[154.8-159.5] As we get older, this is the current science on this.
[159.5-162.7] It looks like what happens is we have DNA breaks.
[162.7-164.8] DNA gets damaged from radiation
[164.8-166.7] and sunlight and bad eating and alcohol
[166.7-168.2] and all the other shit.
[168.2-170.1] As those DNA breaks happen,
[170.1-171.9] your cell actually fixes the DNA.
[171.9-173.4] It's very good at fixing it.
[173.4-174.6] Goes in, there's a bunch of proteins.
[174.6-176.6] They're the worker proteins that are repaired proteins.
[176.6-178.3] They go in, they fix the DNA.
[178.3-179.9] Every time the DNA gets fixed,
[179.9-182.6] there's a chance that those ones and zeros,
[182.6-185.2] those on and off get moved around a little bit.
[185.2-188.1] And as they get moved around over time,
[188.1-189.6] they get moved to the wrong place.
[190.6-193.3] So what ends up happening over time
[193.3-196.0] is that the wrong genes get turned on
[196.0-199.1] and the right genes can get turned off in a cell.
[199.1-201.3] And then that cell stops working right.
[201.3-203.7] The eye cell stops doing what it's supposed to be doing.
[203.7-207.5] The heart cell stops getting the right electrical cascade
[207.5-209.0] to flow through the other cells.
[209.0-211.4] All of the cell, the skin cell becomes a little wrinkled
[211.4-213.3] and eventually enough of those cells
[213.3-217.3] have those epigenetic is what it's called, epigenetic errors.
[217.3-219.4] You start getting wrinkles, your heart stops beating as well.
[219.4-222.3] You go blind, all these sorts of things happen with aging.
[222.3-225.2] It looks like the root of all disease may be aging
[225.2-227.2] and aging is a disease.
[227.2-229.5] So it is a disease rooted in the fact
[229.5-231.0] that the epigenetic factors,
[231.0-233.9] these little molecules move around in the wrong place.
[233.9-237.2] That's what we discovered is basically aging.
[237.2-240.0] In 2006, a guy named Shinya Yamanaka
[240.0-242.6] found that he could take four proteins
[242.6-244.0] and put them on a cell.
[244.0-245.0] They would go into the cell
[245.0-247.7] and they would move all of those epigenetic markers,
[247.7-249.3] those ones and zeros,
[249.3-252.0] to make that cell into a stem cell,
[252.0-254.2] which can then be turned into any other cell in the body.
[254.2-257.1] So that was the magic thing he won the Nobel Prize for.
[257.1-260.3] In 2016, another scientist published a series of papers
[261.1-263.5] that instead of putting a lot of those four proteins on the cell,
[263.5-265.0] you could put a small amount.
[265.0-266.7] And if you put a small amount,
[266.7-269.7] instead of resetting all those molecular markers
[269.7-272.2] and making that cell back into a stem cell,
[272.2-273.0] what it actually does,
[273.0-276.0] it just moves those markers back to where they're supposed to be
[276.0-277.6] to make it a young cell.
[277.6-280.8] And suddenly that retinal cell becomes like a young retinal cell.
[280.8-283.1] The skin cell becomes a young skin cell.
[283.1-285.2] The heart cell becomes a young heart cell.
[285.2-287.4] All of these cells get reset.
[287.4-288.5] And they did this in mice
[288.5-291.8] and they made the mice age to like 250 plus years old.
[291.8-294.0] They put it in monkeys, the wrinkles went away.
[294.0-296.6] And they've done it in specifically applying it
[296.6-299.4] to retinal cells in the eye and reversed blindness.
[299.4-300.9] This is Sinclair's stuff, right?
[300.9-302.3] Sinclair has one of these companies
[302.3-304.0] that's in clinical trials now.
[304.0-305.1] And there's dozens of others.
[305.1-307.2] All toast labs is one of the most funded startups
[307.2-309.2] in history that no one talks about.
[309.2-311.8] They've raised close to probably $10 billion
[311.8-314.8] at this point to pursue these technologies.
[314.8-317.3] But basically what this means is we are now discovering
[317.3-318.6] not just the four proteins,
[318.6-320.4] but a whole bunch of other little molecules
[320.4-322.4] that we can put into a cocktail.
[322.4-324.8] Either we're gonna drink it, take it as a shot,
[325.9-328.7] or take it as a pill, it will get into ourselves
[328.7-331.6] and it will reset the epigenetic of that cell
[331.6-332.9] to make it young again.
[332.9-335.0] They're starting with targeting diseases,
[335.0-338.2] like a particular like blindness or glaucoma in the eye
[338.2-340.1] or you know, rheumatoid arthritis
[340.1-341.4] or some other heart issue.
[341.4-343.6] And they're applying these factors to the cells
[343.6-345.0] and that tissue only.
[345.0-346.5] Locally, locally.
[346.5-348.2] But over time what will end up happening
[348.2-350.3] is this becomes a systemic treatment
[350.3-352.5] and they're already doing it in animal models.
[352.5-355.0] And then you can either do it continuously
[355.0-356.4] or what I think will end up happening
[356.4-358.6] is we'll probably have a system whereby
[358.6-360.5] these factors will be continued,
[360.5-362.4] when I say the word factor, I mean protein.
[362.4-364.4] These proteins can be continuously made
[364.4-368.0] and released inside our body as they're needed.
[368.0-372.2] So we maintain our youth and we will live theoretically
[372.2-374.0] for as long as we want.
[374.0-375.6] That's where this has had it.
[375.6-378.0] And the technology shows now that we can do this
[378.0-380.9] in animals, we can re-dose them, re-dose them
[380.9-381.7] and keep them young.
[381.7-383.0] It's been done systemically, yeah?
[383.0-385.8] Yeah, this is the mouse model
[385.8-387.9] where they made these mice, the equivalent of like
[387.9-390.2] having someone live like 200 plus years old.
[390.2-391.8] You know, and this is like so early,
[391.8-393.4] they haven't even optimized the molecule,
[393.4-395.3] they haven't optimized how you deliver the molecule,
[395.3-397.5] they haven't optimized the dosing,
[397.5-399.1] they haven't optimized the method of the,
[399.1-400.4] like there's all these techniques
[400.4-403.0] that are gonna be developed on top of this.
[403.0-405.8] For every one year we can extend average human lifespan,
[405.8-408.3] we're adding tens of trillions of dollars to GDP, right?
[408.3-410.2] So this is also another big economic driver,
[410.2-411.7] but it's not just how long people live,
[411.7-414.4] it's how healthy they are and how energetic they are
[414.4-416.7] and how happy they can be and they can now go out
[416.7-419.0] and not feel all the pain and have the disease.
[419.0-422.2] You know, theoretically this can lead to a reversal
[422.2-425.0] in rates of cancer proliferation or reversal
[425.0-427.8] in diabetes or reversal in many of these other diseases
[427.8-430.6] that are fundamentally rooted in this kind of failure
[430.6-434.9] of your epigenum, the markers that turn your genes on and off.
[434.9-439.7] So this is a technology category that I am like,
[439.7-440.9] I think it's one of these other things
[440.9-441.8] that you can kind of think about
[441.8-443.8] the compounding effect, free energy, right?
[443.8-448.0] Like AI, automation and you know,
[448.0-451.7] infinite labor for people to do all the things they wanna do
[451.7-453.2] and potentially living forever.
[453.2-455.2] I mean, you start to think about how these all kind of compound,
[455.2-457.2] that's why I'm excited about the future.
[457.2-460.6] Like these very quickly become these sort of compounding effects
[460.6-462.7] that drive us into a happier tomorrow.
[462.7-464.6] And then again, it becomes a question of abundance.
[464.6-466.1] How do you wanna spend your time?
[466.1-467.3] You know, again, 100 years ago,
[467.3-469.1] I don't think people would have had the job option
[469.1-472.2] of being a yoga instructor or being a podcaster
[472.2-474.9] or being a wedding photographer, you know, go down the list.
[474.9-477.5] Like there's so many things that people have found joy
[477.5-478.6] in doing with their time
[478.6-480.4] and they can be productive doing it.
[480.4-483.8] I think more of that starts to happen tomorrow.
[483.8-485.0] And it's less of the like,
[485.0-486.9] you gotta go work the corporate shitty job
[486.9-490.4] on a trading floor in a corporate office at a cubicle
[490.4-492.8] or you know, in a factory or all the things
[492.8-495.4] that maybe we will look back one day
[495.4-498.4] and say, hey, that was kind of limiting human potential.
[498.4-500.3] Like maybe humans could do a lot more.
[500.3-501.6] And maybe they should.
[501.6-504.2] And these shifts to more abundance
[504.2-505.7] give us that opportunity to do that.
[505.7-508.4] How far do you think we're off from getting to the stage
[508.4-511.7] where we can do age reversal?
[511.7-513.2] One decade, five decades.
[513.2-514.9] Way less than that.
[514.9-515.8] Way less than that.
[515.8-520.8] We are in clinical trials now on several of these cocktails.
[522.0-524.4] And if there's always a risk
[524.4-525.8] in going from animals to humans,
[525.8-529.9] but we've done it with human cells in vitro
[529.9-530.9] and in a petri dish.
[530.9-533.8] And we see the effects that we are expecting to see.
[533.8-537.9] So we have a lot of reasons to believe that, you know,
[537.9-540.4] over the next 10 to 20 years,
[542.1-544.0] more of this starts to proliferate.
[544.0-545.8] We've had Peter D. Amanda's idea
[545.8-548.3] of longevity escape velocity, right?
[548.3-551.2] That you need to stick about every year that you live,
[551.2-553.0] means that you're going to live a little bit longer.
[553.0-555.5] But that when you cross a particular threshold,
[555.5-558.3] you just need to stick about until this happens essentially.
[558.3-559.6] Or whatever the equivalent is,
[559.6-561.3] whatever the technology is,
[561.3-563.2] it allows you to extend lifespan indefinitely.
[563.2-564.0] I think it's fair.
[564.0-565.8] You just hold on, hold on.
[565.8-570.5] It's probably the best long-termist view
[570.5-571.9] for looking after your health.
[572.4-575.2] But now is not the time to fuck it.
[575.2-576.0] Right, totally.
[576.0-578.8] Because in the past, there wasn't really any reason
[578.8-580.8] to stick about, yeah, you're going to live 80 years,
[580.8-582.3] or 70 years or 60 years,
[582.3-584.9] but you know, you're playing around with fives and tens,
[584.9-587.5] whereas if the difference is between 80 and 100,
[587.5-592.3] or 2120, you're like, hey, keep it together.
[592.3-594.1] And by the way, a lot of like the number one thing
[594.1-596.1] you can do to fix your epigenome,
[596.1-598.1] which you can't do without taking these drugs,
[598.1-599.0] it's exercise.
[599.4-601.1] Expo fasting helps.
[601.1-602.7] Fasting does have an effect, but exercise.
[602.7-605.9] Like exercise releases molecules that in many cells
[605.9-609.2] in your body will go in and start to address the epigenome
[609.2-610.5] and make you more youthful.
[610.5-612.5] And then there's other things that you can start to take.
[612.5-614.3] Some of this peptide stuff that people are crazy about
[614.3-616.2] has shown that it has an effect.
[617.3-620.4] I don't want to be prescriptive on these things,
[620.4-623.9] but there's a lot of ways that you can start to kind of
[623.9-627.1] edge your way before all the big clinical stuff is done
[627.1-630.2] and the big, you know, products come out to market.