Herbert Walker was the guy that, um, Hal put off, uh, and a bunch of these scientists. He He brought them together and said, "We have recovered a crashed UFO on more than one occasion, and we have a back-engineering program, and we're considering disclosure to the American people. I want you to list the positives of the positive impact to society and the negatives." Yeah. And they did it with a quite a few different scientists, and they all had more negatives than positives. >> To if they came out with this information, to share this information, what would be the effect on society? >> Yes. >> More negatives than positives? >> More negatives than positives positives. >> Because >> disruption of religion, government, economy. >> Well, I mean, depends >> I understand how it does. I just don't >> Depends on your religion. You know, um, and it depends on where these things are from and what what is happening. What do we know? >> Ezekiel has golden chariots from the sky. >> Exactly. Yeah, and a wheel within a wheel. Yeah, the Ezekiel stuff sounds like a UFO encounter. And it's not the only version of that in ancient texts. In the In the ancient Hindu texts, they have Vimanas, these things that are flying through the sky. Like, what is What are those things? You know, in the Rigveda. In the Even in the Bhagavad Gita, they There's There's all these depictions of these things that sound like you're talking about a spaceship or at the very least some kind of technology. Like, what And this thing about the Nephilim, like that the the gods mated with women and created men who were monstrous. Boy, doesn't that sound like aliens came down and genetically manipulated primates and created human beings? That's That's a a version of it that you could imply from the text. It's all really weird stuff, man. Like, really weird. If you If you If you found out that that was all true, it would probably change everything about society. And this is what Herbert Walker and those guys decided after So, Hal Puthoff was explaining it to me on the podcast, like how they put a numerical value to each thing. I'm like >> Right. >> were that close? >> Like imagine if that happened This is 1990. >> Right. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but these kind of really weird things, as you put them, they excite you more than they give you fear. That'd be fair? >> Yeah. I mean >> I mean you seem excited. You get excited about different possibilities. >> Yes. >> I mean you know, I have people go, "Oh, man, no, Rogan loves these conspiracy theories." Like I don't see him liking the conspiracy theories. I see him always being interested in an alternate way something went down and being interested and excited about that, but not going No, no, no, no, no, no, never disengaging from it and going, "No way. No, no, cuz I believe how it was and what I read and that's how it is." That That should not That's not what where you're moving from. >> No. It's never a denial of information and facts. And it's also a recognition that often times a large swath of society just goes with a narrative without having any real understanding of what the the actual facts behind it are. And then there's that term, this pejorative term, conspiracy theory. The problem with that, calling someone a conspiracy theorist, is conspiracies are real. Like there's a lot of evidence. And if you want to sit down, I could [ __ ] show you a ton of them. And And so, anybody who says like, "Oh, you're a conspiracy theorist." I'm like, "Okay, let's talk about conspiracies." Like do you think that any of them exist? Do you think that people conspire? Is it like it's a natural part of human behavior that's been documented throughout history. Even governments. I mean >> Sure. >> literally literally the the thing that got us into the Vietnam War was a conspiracy. It was fake. The Gulf of Tonkin. It was a false flag operation that would never took place at all. They lied to the American people. That's a conspiracy. Like that's just one conspiracy that turns out to be true. There's a lot of them. The problem is people don't want to look like a conspiracy theorist. They've done such a good job of making it a a a a a goofy term that you don't ever want attached to you. It cause damage to your reputation. If you're in a a job where people have to take you seriously, fortunately I'm not. But if you're in a job where people have to take you seriously, you don't want to say anything weird. Like, "Hey, I think aliens are real." Like >> Right. >> People will think you're a cook. And then they discount your opinion on everything. >> Yeah. >> But if you just know the actual facts, like people that don't think there's anything that aliens are real. It's there's no way. We're alone. There's We've never been contacted. >> Why not? >> Gary Nolan, the guy who was on here yesterday that was talking about cancer research. He was also telling us about a piece of wreckage they found from a craft. For is it 1950 that they found it? >> Which one? >> The first one, the silica one? So they have direct chain of possession of this evidence from I believe it was 1950. And it was almost pure silica. And the magnesium ratios were so off that he said that this magnesium had to have been it had to have been sourced from a place that experienced a neutron bomb every 2 minutes for 900 years. That's how off the isotopes were to magnesium that we find here on Earth. He's like, "I'm not saying it's impossible for someone to ever do that, but I'm saying this is from 1950. Like this is a real piece of what they're saying is a wreckage of a craft." And it has a material composition that is impossible for a normal person to create in 1950. So what the [ __ ] is this? And you sit to say that to people and they're like, "Oh." So, Gary Nolan, who's a professor at Stanford, he's a professor in the in in the What is his forensics? Is that what his He does cancer research, but what is his actual title? Stanford School of Medicine Professor. Anyway, rock-solid credentials, published, and people brought him this material and they said, "Could would you analyze this? Cuz you know all these different scientists." And endowed chair Department of Pathology, Stanford School of Medicine. So, when a guy like that is saying, "No, this is a composition of this piece of wreckage that you can't make here." They they found a type of alloy that doesn't exist on Earth and it has on an atomic level layers upon layers of whatever this alloy is. He's like, "This is cost billions of dollars to create." And they found it in 1970. Like, in 1970, no one had this. This is it's not possible to make. Like, maybe you could make it today, but we don't have the equipment to make it today. You could conceive how someone with enough resources could have that money today to do something like that, but it would be an enormous undertaking. >> Yeah. >> And this is a piece of craft that someone found from 1976. So, when a guy like that is telling you like "I'm not saying what it is. I'm not saying where it's from, but I'm saying this is [ __ ] crazy." >> Yeah, and it doesn't add up to what we could practically do. >> But the question is like, why would we assume that it's a biological entity? It's it doesn't have any windows. It's this round thing that looks like a Tic Tac. If there is some sort of advanced propulsion system, some some revolutionary way of moving through space and time that the US government has developed, you know, in some black ops program, that seems very likely and possible. That seems more likely than aliens visiting us. But there's more than one incident and there's a lot of these things and the possibility of alien life in the universe, although we've never experienced it, seems rational. It seems very rational and if you were going to study an emerging civilization that is both primitive and warlike and yet insanely technologically advanced to the point where they have nuclear weapons, they could transmit video through the sky, they have propaganda, they have tracking of their citizens, like that's us. That's us right now. And while we are these territorial primal beings with [ __ ] nuclear weapons, this would be a good time to start exposing yourself and to stop this nonsense. And look, the reason why we named the rooms of our club Fat Man and Little Boy is because in UFO lore, that's when they started showing up. After the detonation of the atomic bombs in Japan, that's when the UFO sightings ramped up. >> And they ramped up mostly in the US, right? >> Yes. >> So that's interesting cuz the US was the one was the nuclear power, so. >> And we were the one who was doing a lot of [ __ ] testing. >> Yeah. >> You know, and also we have all these military bases. Who the [ __ ] has more military bases than us? Who has more nuclear weapons pointed at other people than us? We're we have them all over the place and there's all these multiple sightings and eyewitness accounts of like very credible people who say these things have hovered over military bases. >> It'd be pretty cool if these aliens were benevolent overlords and they were like, "Hey my children." >> Yeah, or maybe even so advanced intellectually that the concept of an overlord is preposterous and they're just biological management. They're just There's just they're gardeners tending to make sure the weeds don't get out of hand and just like let this process continue to play itself out cuz this process of technological innovation is it's the everything that humans do. >> Yeah. >> It's what we do at the pinnacle of our creation is we make better technology. >> Well, I always wonder about fractals and whether or not like this idea of this being a simulation, this being, you know, uh like we are we are kind of replicating we are creating machines and doing our best to create them in our own image, right? >> Yes. >> And that's interesting. You know, that's because our the the mythologies that we subscribe to are the idea that this God that we pray to made us in his image. And we're doing the same thing now with robots and and computers. And that's an interesting thing that we see that do seem to have this sort of um paradigm. >> Mhm. >> This this this idea that that um that's the scaffolding for the way we think, right? And to what end? And and why are we doing that? >> Maybe it's the creation of our own life form. >> But has it already happened? Are we are we the result of that that um impulse that happened way longer a long time ago? >> I think we are the shit-throwing chimps that are going to become the nuclear physicist. >> That's what I >> We are the shit-throwing chimps from 2001 that become Oppenheimer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then I think this thing that we become is integrated with technology. It's probably some sort of a hybrid. It's some sort of a cyborg. >> That's wild. >> Like cuz I think we're already like on the verge of merging. You know, all this talk of like Neuralink and all these various thing we watched this video the other day of this guy who was uh Googling questions and getting answers in his head with his headpiece on. Have you seen that thing? >> Yeah. >> That's so crazy. >> Incredible. Right? So, how long before that is like that's Pong. >> I know. But that's >> And then you have the Unreal 4 engine in 2023 that looks like a movie. Like how long before that technology gets to the point where it's just supremely advanced and we we literally are like gods. >> But my question really is also the idea that that's engineering, right? That's a tool. >> It's innovation. >> It it it but but but there's there's engineering So, there there are two aspects to it. One is getting information faster and stuff, which doesn't get you closer to the truth, but it gets you information faster. There are endless facts. But more importantly, I I always wonder like why we are given this I really believe that human potential is pretty much infinite. Whatever you can imagine and beyond, we can do. And we are doing We We seem to be doing this. Like think about how crazy that is. I can wear a headset and I can do things with my mind and and look up the answer. That's insane. That's magic. It's crazier than magic. But there's a way to measure that and quantify that and replicate that. So, it's not magic. I can do it and I can tell you exactly how I get there, which is even crazier. So, what is that What is that leading us to? It is nudging us closer. It's It's like the I think it's very significant that we're getting a better understanding of what it's like to be someone else. >> Yeah. >> It's It's really hard to say that an a Yanomami Indian or whoever it might be is thinks about things differently than I do when I know so much about how all these human beings, like someone in Iran, um someone in Jordan, uh laughs and cries and bleeds at the same thing I do. Uh you know, we we we it's it's it's being prejudiced based on what that person looks like over there is becoming harder and harder to justify. Where it was Before we knew about that, we were like, "Well, those people over there are {quote} savages or they're this, that, and the other thing." And I do think that we are getting a better understanding of what it's like to be each other and and being nudged in the same direction. I'm not saying we don't We don't become tribal. >> true, too. >> But why? And and it's interesting to think about where that's where that's leading us. To to what to what understanding? To what understanding? And then when we have that understanding, what are we going to do about that? >> Right. And are we going to pull it together? And are there aliens here to make sure that we don't [ __ ] it up? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's the the beautiful idea. The the terrible idea is that it's all us. And then it's all a big ruse, and it's all just drones that we're doing cuz we don't want China and Russia to know about it, but we have insane propulsion systems that operate on gravity and >> Yeah. I think it is us. I have to tell you. >> It seems like both. It seems like us, and it also seems like there's some [ __ ] that we we just don't understand. And I don't know if those people are telling the truth. Because if the people that are telling the truth that there's biological entities, and this is what Jackie Gleason said that Nixon told him. And Nixon took him on a They were drinking. You know that famous story? >> No. >> Who knows if it's true. It's It's a legend. But the legend is that Jackie Gleason and Nixon were drinking. And that Nixon said, "You want to see some [ __ ] aliens?" And they get on Air Force One, and they fly to some Air Force base, and they go to a place where they have a crashed UFO, and they have biological beings that are in freezers. And Jackie Gleason sees this. And Jackie Gleason after that has a house built in upstate New York that looks like a UFO. He became obsessed with UFOs after that. There was a house It was actually for sale at one point in time. Yeah. So he has this house that he had shaped like a UFO. >> Hmm. >> And this is like who knows if this is a true story. >> Yeah. >> Right? Cuz it's like it was kind of sort of disputed. His ex-wife told the story or something like that. I forget. >> I I I I I think that kind of thing is actually impossible to keep secret. >> No, I don't think so. >> Really? >> No, I don't think so at all. >> like generations of of of government bureaucrats can keep something a secret? >> Sure. They They tell the the the people the very highest level know about it. It's very few people. It's all very compartmentalized. They monitor everyone's phone calls, everyone's emails, everything everyone does. At a top secret clearance level? >> No way. >> I don't think you're right. >> Totally impossible. >> You definitely not right. >> I think it's impossible. >> Listen, man, they can keep secrets. >> When? >> People at high levels of military can keep secrets. >> Yeah, but they're always rotating out. They're retiring, they're dying. >> Yeah, they probably wind up [ __ ] Hillary Clinton and a lot of those dudes. >> [laughter] >> Hey, listen, dude, this is not the this is not conspiracy social club. This is the Joe Rogan experience. >> I am not willing to um relinquish the idea that they could keep that secret. >> cuz it's fun to believe in it. >> Yeah, but it's not just a fun to believe in. It is possible. It's a physically possible thing to do. Especially if you have the right people and they're indoctrinated in the right way with top secret clearance. And by the way, it's not like these people don't tell their friends. And it's not like there's a bunch of stories floating around cuz there are. There's a shitload of stories floating around. >> But why why would you like I would never keep that a secret. I'd be like, "Hey, hey, you got [ __ ] aliens." >> the thing. When you have senators and congressmen who find out about this and they find out that military contractors are the ones who have access to this stuff because the back engineering program has to involve someone has the capability of recreating this. So, who would that be? That would be the people that make jets. If you got someone who's making you a [ __ ] uh a stealth bomber and you have a crashed UFO, those are the people that you want discussing like what kind of things that you've recovered from a [ __ ] alien crash and can this be replicated? >> No. Here's the problem with your whole theory. >> Don't you know me, [ __ ] Cuz you don't know. You might be wrong. >> No. >> No, no, no. Don't say you're wrong because you don't know that I'm wrong. >> The problem with your theory. Ready? I'm sorry, and I love that you want to believe in this and so do I, but here's the problem. >> Okay. >> There's no law. There's no written law that says I'm not allowed to talk about aliens. And I mean at the level the top levels of clearance, like the most secret level. There is no world where if I'm a government official and I take a bunch of pictures and I come before Congress and I go, "Here's my evidence. I'm blowing the whistle. There are real aliens." >> think they would go to jail for violating your top secret clearance. No, because it's not violating my top secret clearance. Because I'd never go to jail for that. Cuz I'd be like, you're going to put me in jail for exposing what everybody wants to know. The whole world would be like, "HOLY [ __ ] YOU GUYS kept this a secret?" >> That's assuming that you have access to that material to extract it from wherever the Maybe maybe not. Maybe those are the kind of people that wouldn't do that, Brian. >> Listen. >> You're a [ __ ] communist. I don't like the way you think. >> [laughter] >> I'm blowing I'm I'm shredding your UFO files. >> You you think you are, but you're just using these establishment talking >> to talk about UFOs and you never get in trouble. >> You sound like your dad. >> Come on, man. First tell me and the show will be in the up and >> You're a CIA stooge and you're in here spreading propaganda to the faithful listeners. >> Listen to me. Listen to me. There are no aliens and if there are uh we'd know about it. >> Imagine you're hanging out with Trump. He's like, "You want to see the UFO? Can you keep a secret?" Yeah, there he is. Hanging out with Nixon. And um they supposedly do have something that crashed and they supposedly do have biological entities that are on ice somewhere. This is according to these whistleblowers that work for the government and now we're talking about I just don't know what's real. It's hard to know. And you talk about it you feel like a [ __ ] cuz it's like There's got to be something out there. >> Mhm. >> Okay, we've got to assume there's something out there whether or not I don't even know. >> Right, but we should we assume that that something's been here? >> Yeah. >> I think so. >> Yeah, they've been here. >> Well, I would come here. If I was from somewhere else and I was like, "What do we you know, imagine if you're like from some super advanced civilization that's completely abandoned war, there's no thievery, everybody reads everybody's minds, there's no unfairness because they've worked all that stuff out. It's just superior intellect because everybody's evolved for a million years past where we are now. And you get the opportunity to see what a breakthrough civilization looks like. Right when they're figuring out nuclear power, right when they're figuring out flight and war and cell phones and [ __ ] like that. Like that would be like you and I going back and going and visiting the real Wild West. Like being in a like a gold mining town in 1830. You know, you know how nuts that would be? You know how [ __ ] crazy? Be one of the minor 49ers in 1849 going all the way to San Francisco and these [ __ ] animals stabbing each other in saloons. Like you know what that would be like? >> That's insane. >> The kind of barbarians that took a chance with wooden wheels getting pulled by a horse and went across mountain ranges to try to get to the gold. That would be like us going to visit that. Of course we would visit that. Of course. Like if you had a chance to see what it would like to see Christopher Columbus land in the Bahamas. To see what that must have been like. Of course you would want to see it. If you could go literally back in time and see primitive humans. Well, if they're just like us, but they're like us millions of years from now. Of course they would want to visit us. It would be so interesting. You imagine if there was a planet where we could go where we could see cavemen. >> We go. >> But you imagine? >> [ __ ] Moscow to me. >> Staying an hour. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> But it's >> You can see guys making [ __ ] arrowheads with with flint for the first time and strapping them to sticks, giant [ __ ] heads and big teeth covered in hair, just figuring out tools. Oh my god, we would be fascinated by those people. >> The way I think about it is listen, since I'm a kid we're talking about Martians. And aliens, right? Since I'm [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> six, seven. I've been hearing about this. The moon landing was in '69. >> Mhm. >> So, I was six. So, it started after that. Like, I heard it more and more about it. So, what you mean to tell me is in 55 years, we haven't found out more information about it. We know. We know what's going on. We know. NASA's not stupid. They know something's out there. They play with us a little bit from time to time, but there's something out there, my friend. >> I think so, too. >> There's something out there. >> I think the other problem with the president knowing, you know, can they keep things from the president? Of course, they can. The president is only there for 4 years. Then he has to get in there again. And if he wins, he's only there for 4 more years. These [ __ ] people have 30-year careers, 50-year careers in the intelligence agencies. >> They know. >> If they know something and they've known something since, you know, [ __ ] Gerald Ford, why why would they tell you? Why do you need to know? They've already been hiding this from the population for so long. >> And those old-timers didn't need a What's that we have to sign something? >> NDA? >> NDA, like they didn't do whatever the [ __ ] like There's no NDAs back then, so there was something to it. >> Yeah. >> There was something to it, you know, you got that place in New Mexico. You got Hudson County, what I discussed before with the Martians landing. You have all these places that have a high volume. I wonder what's number two in UFO sightings. >> I wonder what's number one. What's number one? Is it Hudson Valley? >> Yeah, Hudson Valley by the George Washington Bridge, that whole thing. >> That's crazy. >> That's number one. I wonder what number two, number three, and number four is. >> It's interesting that a lot of them are over near where the ocean is. Cuz that's that's one of the big theories that they have bases in the ocean. Because the reality of the ocean is no one's looking. You know, if you have something on Earth, satellites can see it. Like, if you have something that's in the middle of Nevada in some deserted area and [clears throat] you have buildings, satellites can see that. They can see the structures. So, you have to hide them. But if you have something in the ocean, nobody sees anything. We We've only explored What is What is the percentage of the ocean floor that we have to explored? I think it's like 10%. I think it's somewhere around 10, maybe 20%. So that means that 80% of the ocean floor is undiscovered. We have no idea what's down there. And it's, you know, a mile, 2 miles deep in some spots. If you're from a super sophisticated civilization that's millions of light-years away, and you can come here instantaneously, and you have the ability to traverse in these what they call transmedium craft, which means they can go through air, go through water. Just It creates a gravity bubble around it and go through everything. That's what they think these things are doing. That's why they can go 500 knots underwater. Just Like nothing we have could do that. And if they have bases under the ocean, it makes sense that these sightings are all near the ocean. Just totally makes sense. >> A lot happens in the ocean. That ocean's stronger than what you [ __ ] think. >> Yeah. >> I love it going to a beach and just sitting on the beach. >> Uh seabed 2030 >> Seabed 2030 What they've mapped up? >> They've gotten 30% mapped. They're trying to get the whole thing done by 2030. >> Oh, really? Oh, interesting. Oh, what if they find a base? >> Yeah. >> What if they get down there and they find bases? What is all that stuff? What are those lines? >> that's where they probably send their drones, probably. >> Whoa. Whoa. That's crazy. So they're scouring the ocean floor to try to get them at That's why the aliens are going to come out. Wow, that's Hawaii. Whoa. >> No, that's not Hawaii. Hawaii's over here. [clears throat] >> It is? What's that? What are those islands in the middle? Is that Catalina? Oh, I see. Oh, you were zoomed in. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> I'm trying to see what this stuff is. I think these little like colored brown spots are what's sticking up, and the rest of it's underneath.